Friday, August 10, 2007

"The only fascist science fiction writer in America": RA Heinlein

(The Politics of Sci-fi, Redux)


From Libertarian Forum, 1969 or so:

"""""According to a February issue of National Review magazine, Robert Heinlein is one of 270 signers of a jingoist petition circulated in the U. S. Author's Guild by the facile William Buckley and his spiritual cohort Frank S. Meyer. The petition, a belated retort to an earlier anti-Vietnam war roster of authors (which was eminently successful), calls for "the vigorous prosecution of the Vietnam war to an honorable conclusion." Deep contemplation is not necessary to comprehend the statist, authoritarian implications of such New Right weasel words and the concomitant beliefs of men who would endorse it.""""""

Apparently even a few Libertarians thought Heinlein a bit too whacked and rightist (to the real Precious-Bodily-Fluids sort of Hawk, Nixon was "soft"). Heinlein appears to be the favorite scribbler and ideological guru of New Worlds. Excepting JC, of course, and perhaps Hog HulkRon(one of the loudest of DU Blog-Martyrs: loudness being inversely proportional to like rationality.......). Perhaps HulkRon--homophobe, congenital liar, white trash protestant, misogynist, and lover of all things Heroic and Heinleinian---might leave his WWF Today alone for a few days and read up on his ideological guru's pal Bill Buckley (At least Buckley wielded some nice Ivy League prose: more than pulpmeister RAHeinlein, or poor Hulk-Ron, another Caliban who fancies hisself Shakespeare, could say).



Heinlein/Buckley

Dem's the Facts (and there's more to come for the Corpse Cocka-roacha).

16 comments:

Max said...

Touch, touchy...

J said...

Not touchy touchy, McNihilist: more like pointing out your boy DrugRon's lies du jour. He lied, not that that's out of character: This article is cited, the quotes are there, etc.: and the central claim--Heinlein was a hawk on Nam--is clearly indicated. Indeed WF Buckley was to the right of the Nixonians. So, he's wrong, and indeed engaging in his usual libellous idiocy.

I have read other Heinlein. Who the F. cares? He's a prattling paranoid freak, incapable of writing a coherent paragraph. I doubt he could define a thesis sentence. He's not only an insult to the English language, but even to authentic sci-fi.

I never dismissed Heinlein as only a fascist either , so you are again stretching the truth, if not lying yourself: the writing on Heinlein is meant to demonstrate not only his politics, but the RAH "code," and his hack prose style as well. You're the moralists, indeed SchitzRon now has reverted back to usual hysterical rightist self. You're a vulgar knave as well, a mockery of real values of the 60s, and that shall be known.

J said...

"""I ask you to post something on climbing Mt. Whitney? I have a serious question. Enough of this threat nonsense. """"


I might. But first I would like to have a little chat with you, either email, or say Yahoo IM.

Mike said...

Lookie Here

Whoa, J: Corpse? Moider? And around kids too. Bookmark the sick bag of scheisse. Perhaps mr. murder might be called as witness if Krakron decide to tell some lies.....

Perezoso said...

Funny that Bitch-Ron seems to have watched a different ST movie than about everyone: if anything the flick was more fascist than the pulp:

"an almost completely unfaithful film version of STARSHIP TROOPERS, directed by Paul Verhoeven, was released in 1997"

But Bitch Ron has like done so many drugs over so many years, so seeing white dudes with some way cool gear in combat uniform killing off millions of rather ethnic-looking "Bugs" can be like "freaky" or anything he wants it to be.


And of course as many have noted, Heinlein defended Reagan's "Star Wars" missile defense program and actually nearly assaulted Arthur C. Clark because Clark protested it. Oh yes: that darn Reaganite, pro-nuke, pro-Vietnam War, pro-McCarthyite "hippie" Heinlein. Keep on lying, Himmler-Ron.

Wait until we here at Contingencies get the inside scoop on L-Ron, Heinlein and some of your favorite occultist secret stuff, Crowley-Ron.

Max said...

Christ, your spittle is flying. Cool down!

J said...

How about PerpRon's spittle? And you haven't yet seen the messages he has sent. He's an idiotic, crass, semi-educated goon, a poor writer, and I suspect a danger to people he's around. Even his rantings on what he takes to be sci-fi are about like what teenagers would scribble.

This is my blog. He hasn't been mentioned. There's been no threats. Insults aren't threats. Calling him a hick bag of shit is entirely within my rights. His repeated rude, nasty, threatening messages to me ARE threats. His allegations that I have threatened him as full of shit as any of his BS.

In regards to Heinlein: I suggest your attachment to RAH is a type of dogma like most NW thinking. Heinlein's fascist leanings have been fairly well documented; there's some debate as to whether he was an outright nazi sympathizer: I don't think he was, but some do--not all raving leftists. I don't have to do the legwork: you simply don't note the references (for instance the incident with Clarke and SDI, etc). And uh the link is not from a leftist rag: it was libertarian. Von Mises is quite well known. The Buckley petition was protested at the time, loudly in some quarters. SO you don't even know your 60's history. You keep thinking Heinlein is some visionary, when he was the Establishment, the powers that be, the hawks--even to the right of the Nixonians. But then I am starting to realize that's you as well. Try reading say one Vonnegut book--like Cat's Cradle---instead of your sci-fi pulp visions. Your That's 60s counterculture lit, for better or worse. As is Pynchon. What's more Kurt however f-ed up never voted for Nixon or argued for SDI. And I suspect he knew at least as much science as RAH did (who had a reputation in LA for being associated with L-Ron's quack ideas.) Or are you cool with scientology as well? AE Vogt was. As well as with even more rightist views than RAH.

I'm not saying Heinlein's writing (he was an incredibly prolific pulp-meister as well) is entirely worthless . But you also have continually missed the point anyway. For one, fiction ain't truth. Especially that of the RAH space opera type. You want the history of the 60s don't read Heinlein.

Anonymous said...

Ooooo Daddy. What's Cockroach Corpse? And who's Aliester Crowley? And why are they putting you in a straightjacket?

Buh bye Snitch-Ron.

Anonymous said...

Hey Maxy Max. We are awaiting your response.

If it's a lie or more evasion or covering for your wannabe JimmyHoffaonius pal, you're little walkie-talkie conspiracy will be subpoened.

Got dat?

Anonymous said...

Monday AM Drug test as well, space boys.

Max said...

Mr. Green just took off. Had a nice visit. Just watched The Simpson's movie- a nice gift for those who have long ago stopped watching the show on TV but not out of lack of love for it.

Now, what's up? The war still raging?

J said...

War? There's no war. That's part of his paranoid schema. In fact, I have never threatened him, and don't intend to. But he insults me, and I insult back--on this blog, and no where else. Ah don't mention his name. I have never said something half as rude, crass, and misinformed as he did on that RAH pep rally thread. And I doubt Gangsta-Ron really wants to play the cop game--'nuff said. I do point out his various naive assumptions, whether in regards to politics, literature, what have you.

He's made as many threatening comments as I have. Along with plenty of shallow, emotional, manipulative comments.

(Check your email: the message explains a bit more, and there is an important point that I want you to understand. (Unless I am blocked).

Btw, did you ever hear of Heinlein's ad(Patrick Henry something) for the Colorado Springs paper, back like in 59 or so? Complete gung-ho militarist. RAH was showing far right tendencies even in 50s (and did not like many writers denounce McCarthyism). No, I am not saying therefore he's a nazi and all his writing is bogus, but merely pointing the biographical context. There are talented fascists. But call a spade a spade.

Max said...

"Complete gung-ho militarist. RAH was showing far right tendencies even in 50s..."

You seem to be implying that a militarist is also a right winger. This may often be true, but I believe Heinlein- as in so many other cases- broke the mold and proved the exception. He believed strongly in individual liberty and tight family bonds. His 'family' was extended to all those whom he loved and respected.

My understanding of fascism is that it involves a joining of state military power with corporate interests. That was the defining trait of Mussolini's usage of the term. Heinlein was anything but a corporatist.

J said...

People said Mussolini broke the mold, at the time. "Strong family ties" can be read as a fascist trait, at least when it gets extreme (the nazis were all about that, the pure Vati and his Hausfrau, the Hitler jugend, etc.). And of course American fundies love to promote family values, ad nauseum. (you're not leaning towards the MittMan again, are you?). I agree strong families are important to some degree, but one could question whether that is some inherent good. Indeed the Founding fathers (Jefferson especially) were challenging the old family dynasties of Europe (and Heinlein was no Jeffersonian, really).

The Patrick Henry ad was strongly pro-nuke and again, even to the right of the Eisenhower sorts of republicans. I agree there is a libertarian aspect--the liberty thing--to Heinlein's writing, but that doesn't mean that's necessarily good either. (the free market's great for some, not for many others).


I am not saying people should not read his writing, but to put him on a pedestal as some great master seems rather dubious. I think some daddies like his writing because they think it's patriotic, inspiring, wholesome etc. I would disagree. Heroics are generally sort of right-wing anyway (as Joyce knew). And as some critics said, if his value is due solely to Heinlein's love of mathematics and science (tho' there are some who question he had any real advanced knowledge of modern physics or higher mathematics--he dropped out of his engineering classes at UCLA his first semester....), why not just give the kids the trig. and calc. and physics texts instead of the pulp.

As a "artist" of language tho' I don't think he was that innovative, even compared to say PK Dick, or the cyberpunks, etc. William Gibson's prose cuts about any of those old Campbell school hacks, I think. But his somewhat pessimistic vision, like Orwell's, ain't about flag waving, or space epics set 500+ years in the future, and there are no aliens, nor sword and sorcery BS.

J said...

So--I await your answer to the question I posed (offline). I also find it greatly amusing that B-n, a person who regularly rants on the importance of the Founding fathers, the Constitution, Due process, habeas corpus, evidence, etc. continually forgets all of those items when's he's seized with his paranoia. Or is it jus' drugs. Either way.......

J said...

So, McCoward: are you going to respond to the question, or not?

Btw, Heinlein was probably 2 steps to the right of Dick Cheney. RAH knew Al Haig. He hung out with USAF hawks. And NASA has been GOP controlled for years. There are few if any pro-NASA Emo-crats. You might recall that when tuning into your Rove bash.

Heinlein's in Hell, if such a place exists, I wager: tho' I grant that Hell can not be proven to exist. Dante himself put the roguish generals and officers in a rather nasty section of the Malebolge (perhaps you recall the fate of Ulysses.......)

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